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PurplePanda

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My group has played through the two premade campaign settings and I would like some creative criticisms on a new idea I have. 

I would like to send the team through the gate to an alternate timeline. One where the Nazis DID manage to get control of the gate and used it to get alien technology. Unfortunately they were no match for the goa'uld. 

Now Hitler himself has been taken over by a goa'uld symbiote and has turned all of the Nazis into Jaffa. 

I was wondering how far I should take this without it becoming to racist but still being realistic and fitting within the Stargate universe.

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Posted (edited)

You are taking it already too far. It's been canonically established stargates don't deal with alternate universes. The most a stargate could do is send characters into their own past, a past where nazis are defeated. Changes to that timeline would eventually lead to a Moebius paradox: for example, SGC wouldn't be created, characters wouldn't be in the team (they could even not exist) and they wouldn't travel back in time, potentially changing the timeline, which would fix the original timeline and events.

What you want to do requires specifically a quantum mirror, not a stargate. And whatever the team does in that goa'uld nazi timeline wouldn't have impact in their original timeline (where nazis were defeated and never got to control the stargate). In fact, I don't see there's much of a point in playing such scenario, unless you want a "escape against overwhelming odds" situation; there's nothing or little to gain for characters in that environment they couldn't get from goa'ulds in their own timeline and universe. Remember, goa'ulds limit the technological and scientific development of the civilizations they enslave.

Edited by Bahamut_A6M5
Typo

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This to me sounds like a specific mission rather than an overarching story.

Eg: Go through the gate, use a mirror or similar and then explore the new universe. stuff happens and you lose access to the mirror so have to find it to escape this reality. 

 

In order to make it an actual setting you would need your team of PCs to escape the planet and use the stargate system to explore from there never having a home to return to, scavenging and creating their own tools to survive. Its interesting to consider but without leaving the reality or planet, the goa'uld hitler only serves to create an opportunity for players to become a resistance group on earth.

 

My 5c anyways.

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4 hours ago, Divine_Wind said:

This to me sounds like a specific mission rather than an overarching story.

Eg: Go through the gate, use a mirror or similar and then explore the new universe. stuff happens and you lose access to the mirror so have to find it to escape this reality. 

 

In order to make it an actual setting you would need your team of PCs to escape the planet and use the stargate system to explore from there never having a home to return to, scavenging and creating their own tools to survive. Its interesting to consider but without leaving the reality or planet, the goa'uld hitler only serves to create an opportunity for players to become a resistance group on earth.

 

My 5c anyways.

Actually becoming resistance fighters on earth was something we talked about. We were thinking that earth would be radically different from the world we know today. This would hopefully keep it interesting enough that staying on earth for most of the campaign wouldn't be an issue.

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7 hours ago, Bahamut_A6M5 said:

You are taking it already too far. It's been canonically established stargates don't deal with alternate universes. The most a stargate could do is send characters into their own past, a past where nazis are defeated. Changes to that timeline would eventually lead to a Moebius paradox: for example, SGC wouldn't be created, characters wouldn't be in the team (they could even not exist) and they wouldn't travel back in time, potentially changing the timeline, which would fix the original timeline and events.

What you want to do requires specifically a quantum mirror, not a stargate. And whatever the team does in that goa'uld nazi timeline wouldn't have impact in their original timeline (where nazis were defeated and never got to control the stargate). In fact, I don't see there's much of a point in playing such scenario, unless you want a "escape against overwhelming odds" situation; there's nothing or little to gain for characters in that environment they couldn't get from goa'ulds in their own timeline and universe. Remember, goa'ulds limit the technological and scientific development of the civilizations they enslave.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't plan on the Stargate itself sending them to an alternate reality. The plan was to have them find something on another planet that would send them to an alternate universe. 

And as far as the goa'uld limiting the technology, the idea is that the Nazis already had advanced technology and had already taken over earth.

It would have been almost impossible for the Hitler goa'uld to convince the people he was a god. My thoughts were that he would be working with what he had. The Nazis pretty much already worshiped Hitler. There wouldn't be much need to hold them back technologically.

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Allowing a technologically advanced society to exist beneath a newcomer or former equal would probably be considered an affront and risk to the system lords on every conceivable level, not to mention the danger such technological awareness poses to the symbiote's own survival undetected within the society itself.

A fun point of historical divergence would be for the Thule Society's hunt for mystical relics to uncover Osiris and even Hathor. They'd both be more about subverting that particular group into their personal fiefdom much like Hydra...

 

 

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11 hours ago, PurplePanda said:

Actually becoming resistance fighters on earth was something we talked about. We were thinking that earth would be radically different from the world we know today. This would hopefully keep it interesting enough that staying on earth for most of the campaign wouldn't be an issue.

Ultimately it's your choice and as long as you and your players keep engaged that's the main thing 🙂

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50 minutes ago, 1001100x02 said:

Allowing a technologically advanced society to exist beneath a newcomer or former equal would probably be considered an affront and risk to the system lords on every conceivable level, not to mention the danger such technological awareness poses to the symbiote's own survival undetected within the society itself.

Yeah that's very true. Maybe I could use that somehow. Maybe Hitler could be an enemy of the system Lord's. But I'd have to make him pretty powerful lol

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All this goa'uld Hitler scenario could only work if the goa'uld infiltrates and subverts the whole organization to do its bidding. With the usual goa'uld MO, the scenario would never work. Let's put it this way: nazi Germany discovers how the stargate works, then proceeds to create its Stargate Program. They run across the galaxy taking advanced technology to further the nazi agenda on Earth. In the process, they anger the System Lords, who move against Earth. A goa'uld invasion force is dispatched and the nazi SGC fails to stop it (basically, the nazis have been using their newfound techonology to beat the crap out of their earthling enemies, not alien enemies).

As the Earth assault begins, goa'ulds bombard major cities on Earth from orbit, killing millions in doing so, and most military groups. In a second stage, secondary cities and remaining militaries are picked with selective strikes using alkesh and death gliders, before moving into straight ground invasion. With nazi ground forces decimated, jaffa hordes meet minimun resistance; they kill and take prisoners as they advance, capturing territory. Once Earth is secured, the appointed goa'uld moves into demanding submission to their new "god". Those refusing are mass executed in front of population, as an example for those denying goa'uld "divinity". Eventually, enslaved survivors would be brought into submission; in a few generations of indoctrination, earthling slaves would believe the goa'uld is their "god".

Advanced technology would be taken for goa'uld use; slaves would be denied access to such technology. Technology level would be force dropped into Middle Ages or earlier, with people wielding knives, swords and bows at best. That's so, in case or rebellion, jaffa enforcers would have no problem with quelling revolts using their more advanced weaponry (ma'tok and zat).

Also, goa'ulds would have little to no use for nazi ideology. It would more probably be banned (there's only a "superior race" in the eye of goa'ulds and it's them; forget about "arian supremacy", humans are nothing more than cattle for the taking).

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15 hours ago, Bahamut_A6M5 said:

All this goa'uld Hitler scenario could only work if the goa'uld infiltrates and subverts the whole organization to do its bidding. With the usual goa'uld MO, the scenario would never work.

I'm really trying to make the Stargate cannon fit this scenario. A couple people in my gaming group are big ww2 history buffs and wanted me to write a campaign where they could fight the Nazis. 

My thought was that the goa'uld Hitler would be a much weaker system Lord (if they even were a system Lord to begin with) and wouldn't have the means to take over earth the usual way. So they infiltrate the most powerful faction by taking the leader as their host.

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Posted (edited)

The original RPG had a nunch of Nazis evacuate Earth via the Antarctic gate and create their own little Iron Skys-esque civilisation, but frankly I always had trouble with that set up.

If you want to fight nazis, you need to change the history of your setting and have the Germans either directly recover the gate from Giza instead of Katherine and her dad, or else they manage to steal it on the voyage back to the states. Have them set up a research lab at Tannhauser, which is where the Americans recover the gate and history continues as normal. Fastforward 60 years and you can have your gate team stumble across the Reichgate team trying to conquer/loot/extetminate the friendly local population of your choice.

And don't forget, despite the casting agency's shortcomings the population of the galaxy is majority non-white. And they will be acting accordingly.

Edited by 1001100x02

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On 6/23/2020 at 12:46 AM, 1001100x02 said:

If you want to fight nazis, you need to change the history of your setting and have the Germans either directly recover the gate from Giza instead of Katherine and her dad, or else they manage to steal it on the voyage back to the states. Have them set up a research lab at Tannhauser, which is where the Americans recover the gate and history continues as normal. Fastforward 60 years and you can have your gate team stumble across the Reichgate team trying to conquer/loot/extetminate the friendly local population of your choice.

Yeah, I think a complete history change would be best. One of my players suggested that we skip ahead to after the goa'uld were defeated as well. Just have earth completely controlled by the Nazis and they would be trying to take over the galaxy.

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33 minutes ago, PurplePanda said:

Yeah, I think a complete history change would be best. One of my players suggested that we skip ahead to after the goa'uld were defeated as well. Just have earth completely controlled by the Nazis and they would be trying to take over the galaxy.

Literally the only reason the goa'uld got defeated in the regular time line was because humanity cooperated with other species and non-white cultures in a way inconceivable to a Nazi mindset (not to mention the replicators doing a good deal of the heavy lifting if I recall). The Asgard might initially help out should the Reichgate team stumble across Cimmeria and work out what's going on before immediately enslaving it (after appropriately purging the insufficiently "Aryan" members of the population, but they'd take one look at a Nazi-controlled planet and go "nope, you're on your own". With Teal'c, it's quite unlikely they'll get the Jaffa. Send them to Abydos during WWII and they absolutely aren't going to defeat Ra without the nuke

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39 minutes ago, 1001100x02 said:

Literally the only reason the goa'uld got defeated in the regular time line was because humanity cooperated with other species and non-white cultures in a way inconceivable to a Nazi mindset (not to mention the replicators doing a good deal of the heavy lifting if I recall). 

I'm not arguing your point. I actually think you're completely right. It's pretty unrealistic that a group like that would be able to (or willing to) unite so many worlds and so many different people the way the real Stargate command did. 

Rather than giving an in depth explanation as to how they won. It'll probably be easier to simply say "they managed to defeat the goa'uld". 

Again we're just trying to fit the scenario into the canon as best we can. I think when you tell a story like this the realism kinda goes out the window lol

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On 6/23/2020 at 3:45 AM, PurplePanda said:

(...) So they infiltrate the most powerful faction by taking the leader as their host.

This premise basically discards nazi Germany. If a goa'uld was to infiltrate and subvert the most powerful faction, that would be either the United States or the Soviet Union. Larger territories, more natural resources availability and sheer manpower make them potential targets compared to the small Germany, with no access to oil or rubber, for example.

So, in order for a nazi controlled Earth scenario to work, you have to dismiss Stargateverse canon and make it a fanfic literally, with lots of plot holes as to how nazis defeated allied forces with alien technology without incurring goa'uld wrath, recovering from damages caused by war in time to stop possible goa'uld invassions and, what's more, singlehandlely defeating the System Lords with no jaffa rebellion, no asgard foils, no Oma mingling. It could work, as long as your players don't go asking questions and are happy with just shooting nazis armed with plasma repeaters shaped as MP40s.

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20 hours ago, Bahamut_A6M5 said:

It could work, as long as your players don't go asking questions and are happy with just shooting nazis armed with plasma repeaters shaped as MP40s.

Honestly I think this is all they really want lol. I was just hoping someone would have a better idea for how to fit it in with the canon. 

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