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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a chance to read through the current beta version last night. Based on what we see in the shows, teams are ALWAYS led by military personnel. It's safe to assume that everybody on the team will hold either a military or GS rank. There are some civilian GS ranks, that outweigh military rank, though, it should be understood that unless stated otherwise in the warning or op order that a civilian is in command of the mission, that commend defaults to the team leader. Take the movie Predator, for example. Dutch was the senior soldier on the mission, but Dillon (a civilian with a higher GS rank) was technically in charge.

Unless this is specifically addressed, I think I may find it easier to inject an NPC into the group, as the ranking officer. Having run military-themed campaign in other settings, it is almost always a sure bet that the player put in command always lets it go to his head. This isn't normally a problem in fantasy settings, where one player will usually naturally emerge as the de facto leader. The military is a different animal altogether.

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Tau'ri teams always have military leaders. Logically as teh SGP is sometimes touted as aliens operating under human leadership you could extend that but just as easily you could classify the human members of a majority alien team as "technical advisors"...

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/17/2020 at 11:55 PM, 1001100x02 said:

Tau'ri teams always have military leaders. Logically as teh SGP is sometimes touted as aliens operating under human leadership you could extend that but just as easily you could classify the human members of a majority alien team as "technical advisors"...

SGC is to the best of my knowledge part of the US Airforce. A US Military team would never be comprised of all foreign nationals. It would always be led by US personnel. A team made up of representatives of a foreign government would be a team of THAT government's military, wear its uniform, etc. US Military personnel might be seconded to it then as "Advisors", but the teams themselves would be foreign teams - Unless I miss-understand the basic nature of SGC (Especially during the SG-1 time frame).

of course you can always make your own realities 😄

Edited by Darq
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  • 2 weeks later...

Given season 6 as starting point referenced in the vid...

the military chain of command looks like this for a phoenix team:

  1. POTUS
  2. Secretary of the AF: F. Whitten Peters¹
  3. USAF Chief of Staff: Gen. Michael E. Ryan (b.1941)¹
    1. USAF Vice CoS: Gen Ralph Eberhart (b 1946)¹ ²
  4. Stargate Command (SGC) CO: MGen George S. Hammond
    1. SGC CV &/or XO: ?? Possibly unfilled. 
  5. Phoenix Stargate Command (PSGC) CO: MGen P.K. Loyer
  6. PSGC CV (vice commander) ??
  7. Team Leader

I'm not certain whether SGC and PSGC are parallel or if Loyer reports to Hammond. Since I'm doing this for my own group... I'm sticking with subordinate. (A number of such equal rank generals in superior/inferior position are not uncommon.)

Note that military doctors also have a second oversight chain - USAFMS Surgeon General, the assistant Surgeon General, and possibly a specialty CO.

Likewise, the Engineering staff are subject to the Department of Engineering oversight.

I suspect prior to SGC being a major command, it was part of the USAF Space Command.

Civilian Oversight - 

  1. US Congress via committees, all considered vaguely equal
    • Senate Military Affairs Committee
    • Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee
    • Senate Appropriations Committee
    • House Military Affairs Committee
    • House Intelligence Committee
    • House Appropriations Committee
  2. Designated members of those committees
  3. Designated investigators for those committees.
  4. CO PSGC: MGen P.K. Loyer

Note that Congress Critters are adversarial even into Destiny season 2.

The IOA arises in season 9, so is not represented here.

——————————

¹ Real people.

² Ebert was briefly acting CoS,  for 33 days.

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On 10/13/2020 at 2:46 AM, 1001100x02 said:

Crucially, the SG-1 RPG has nothing to do with the SGC. Phoenix Base is confusinggly pitched as a training outreach program as well as a sort of French Foreign Legion

Where do you infer this from?

First paragraph of the Beta:

Quote

Greetings, Traveler. You’ve been recruited by
Stargate Command to defend the galaxy against
the Goa’uld Overlords. Stationed at the secret
Phoenix Site, you now embark upon your training
within the Stargate program.

 

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Besides - some of us are using it for teams out of SGC proper. Why? familiarity. (My current is set in season 1... They're going to see the funeral of Maj Kowalski. 

The P90 and M9 are both standard issue for certain types of units. (M16 or M4, and M9 for standard forces.)

RPGs are by their nature prone to being used for off-label uses. The setting presented in the book feels to me more like SGA or SGU intent.

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On 10/28/2020 at 7:20 PM, 1001100x02 said:

Yeah, a single mention of having been recruited by the SGC really doesn't cover being run out of the SGC under Hammond and operating alongside SG1

Do you have reference to anything to the contrary, because if not - this is all we have. Why would they have a separate reporting structure, especially in the time frame the game takes place? 

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This is from the Home Page

Quote

 

The Tau'ri need your help in the fight against the Goa'uld. Stationed on an undisclosed location under the control of Stargate Command, you will start your training as a new recruit into the Stargate program.

The Stargate SG-1 Roleplaying Game is a sci-fi tabletop game where you assume the role of a member of Stargate Command. As an SG team member, you and your teammates will go on missions, guided by a Gatemaster, in the fight against the Goa'uld and other threats. 

 

 

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On 10/31/2020 at 4:51 PM, Darq said:

Do you have reference to anything to the contrary, because if not - this is all we have. Why would they have a separate reporting structure, especially in the time frame the game takes place? 

Check page 7

 

Quote

A well-kept secret for years, even from some SG-1
teams, the Stargate Phoenix site’s origins were
born from a distinct need to allow independent
in-galaxy work with our alien allies.

Independent from whom? Given everyone's wearing standard issue USAF field gear and equipment and branded with military iconography and operating at least partially under the command of a military leader, Phoenix is very clearly tied to the tau'ri.

Given Kinsey almost got the planet fragged by closing down the SGC when it needed it most and that its operational existence is withheld from people already with access to the existence and reality of the SGC, that can only mean that Phoenix is an illegal black op being hidden from those people and organisations that should be sitting in oversight of it.

This is fascinating.

 

Quote

Stargate Phoenix began as the SG teams
went on missions and contact was made with
several intelligent cultures, [...]
As more and more refugees from foreign worlds
began to rise up, another classified SG program,
separate from the primary SGC, was authorized
by the President and headed up by General P.K.
Loyer.
Its mission was to establish an off-world SG
command center called Phoenix Site that would
bring together and train volunteers from those
worlds and cultures, encountered by the Tau’ri,
that would choose freedom and knowledge over
oppression.
Once trained these SG teams would be sent on
missions with the exploration and defense of the
free galaxy in mind.
You are an operative of the Phoenix site.

It's there in black and white that Phoenix exists as its own creature under Loyer and is not subservient to Hammond (I'd argue however that he has been read into it).

Practically, tau'ri characters are clearly not part of the SGC (though they may exist as such on paper as staffing beta and gamma sites as cover for their transfer offworld). I suspect that encountering SGC personnel in the field would not only jeopardise the operation security of Phoenix, it would also potentially compromise those members of the SGC with whom the contact is made (they maybe start asking questions in the wrong places or innocently drop a comment where the NID or other oversight body picks up on it, etc etc).

Given that passage, I'd argue Phoenix Site was being established via the beta gate once it's been reclaimed from the rogue NID and placed directly under Hammond's authority (hence the need to read him in on Phoenix) up to the point where the Alpha gate is lost fighting the replicators. After that point, moving tau'ri recruits to Phoenix becomes much more of a circumspect operation, especially given the SGC is compromised with respect to officers within it working alongside the rogue cell to facilitate the return of stolen tech to Earth.

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On 9/10/2020 at 5:25 AM, Deriachai said:

Meaning if whatever character is in charge of the team can promote people?

 

Probably not, but the General can.

Officer promotions have specified statutory requirements, and your CO can influence your promotion, but even a 4-star general isn't allowed to promote individuals without sending it through the promotion system.They get to pin it on one, but they don't actually have the authority to promote an officer. 

Generals have, from time to time, been allowed to brevet individuals, but that's not actually the same as a promotion to the substantiative rank. It doesn't count for retirement, doesn't automatically increase pay, doesn't apply outside the issuing command, and usually goes away at the end of whichever conflict it's been authorized for.

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Sadly it was stated on the Discord that the official take is the bland propaganda version where Phoenix is part of the greater SGC, so arguably has Hammond in the CoC.

Still no word on whether the book will be providing any supporting material for people unimpressed with Phoenix and wanting to instead play a Cheyenne-based campaign alongside SG-1

Edited by 1001100x02
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19 hours ago, chpexplorer said:

Hammond isnt in charge at all and has nothing to do with Phoenix according to the people in charge of the game

You can have Phoenix as an independent command in which case Loyer is the one in charge reporting directly (as possible) to the joint chiefs & the president, or you can have it as part of the SGC which makes him ultimately subordinate to Hammond even if he has largely operational autonomy. You simply cannot have it both ways.

Especially given all the statements about Phoenix being part of the SGC seem to avoiding the issue of the Devs so far paying the barest of lip service to the concept while essentially ignoring that the SG1 Roleplaying Game singularly fails to live up to the implication of its name in favour of their own pet spinoff campaign setting. We can't even get confirmation there will be a section of the core book specifically dealing with using the various new mechanics (and requisite NPCs) to run a campaign out of Cheyenne

Edited by 1001100x02
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On 11/4/2020 at 10:03 PM, 1001100x02 said:

Especially given all the statements about Phoenix being part of the SGC seem to avoiding the issue of the Devs so far paying the barest of lip service to the concept while essentially ignoring that the SG1 Roleplaying Game singularly fails to live up to the implication of its name in favour of their own pet spinoff campaign setting. We can't even get confirmation there will be a section of the core book specifically dealing with using the various new mechanics (and requisite NPCs) to run a campaign out of Cheyenne

To me, They are even designing the classes around their SGP1 Squad. I hate to say this, but the whole CRB is just based around phoenix's main squad, it can be said its just Stargate themed.

 Change some enemies, ships, the roles a tad bit and this could be a star wars or star trek based book.  You're a part of Starfleet command's top secret task force to save galaxy from the Dominion.....

  One of us here eventually will make NPCs, rules, weapons and whatnot, and share them for running out of Cheyenne. I don't expect to see that in the rules, unfortunately. It really should be.  we'll see though

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On 11/6/2020 at 1:23 AM, 1001100x02 said:

I suspect that had the franchise not already thoughtlessly used up that name for what it should have called Stargate Destiny, that thr book could easily and more accurately have been called the Stargate Universe RPG

Wasn't there an aborted attempt at an MMO with that name?

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