Class system

[Securepuddle444]

What sort of class system do you think the game should use? Or do you think it should be classless?

[Bahamut_A6M5]

Considering they are building the game upon D&D 5 SRD, I'd bet for a class system similar to that edition. Classes probably will be more focused on a modern setting, very much like those used in AEG's Stargate SG-1 (built upon D&D 3 SRD): soldiers, scientifists,...

[Securepuddle444]

I didn't realize there was older Stargate RPG.

[Mal]

You would need classes that can also be applied to non humans so we can have playable alien team members.

You would probably also want to allow fairly liberal multi-classing. 

I imagine the broad split would be combat/non-combat. You have a few varieties of soldier - close quarters specialist, all rounder general soldier, long range specialist, heavy weapons, pilot, etc. Non combat might be engineers, scientist, diplomat, analyst. 

I can see a player starting as a scientist, but based on game experience, picking up a few levels in soldier - mirroring the development of Jackson or Carter

 

 

[Bahamut_A6M5]

With a fairly generic class design, there wouldn't be the need for classes for non-humans, at least basic classes. For example, soldier could be used for fighting elements regardless race (or there could be a fighter/warrior sort of difference, like in 3.x, to distinguish between people like earthlings, satedans or genii from more "primitive" soldiers like jaffas or cimmerians).

I would also advocate for a balance combat/non-combat in each class, rather than having combat and non-combat classes. For example, scientists with limited combat abilities but wide range of features/skills versus soldiers with high combat abilities but limited features/skills. That way, every class could provide support in either situation.

The option for multiclassing seems fine to me, as that lets players choose between versatility or specialization for their characters. On a more tongue-in-cheek sidenote, according to Stargate SG-1 RPG handbook, Jackson isn't multiclass (he's "pure" scientist from low to high levels) and Carter multiclasses as pointman/scientist at mid levels and as pointman/scientist/officer at high levels

Edited September 28, 2019 by Bahamut_A6M5

[Mal]

Totally agree with paragraph 1. Like the idea of a fighter/warrior class to represent the more primitive cultures. 

I see what you're saying I'm terms of not having a strict combat/non-combat class distinction. Your approach would be more inherently flexible. It would also make sense that a scientists might be or become a good shot with his or her chosen weapon - especially as an experienced team member, but they wouldn't have a deep understanding of combat tactics or a wide knowledge of how to use different weapons - for that they would have to multiclass a bit which I think is fair.

I really appreciate your insight from the old RPG (we should probably come up with a short hand for that iteration). I sadly only have a bad scan copy I got to see if it might be worth giving a go. Sadly the scan cut off about and inch of text in the margin so it basically unreadable. Will need to go look at Jackson and carter.. wasn't the RPG set in the early seasons though? Before Jackson's increase in combat skills?

Should we start outlining some potential class names and outlining the kind of abilities they might have?

[CopperTitan]

Just a thought but weren't there times where the team would more or less recruit natives for at least a mission or two? Just spitballing here but rather than classes why not treat these as backgrounds with different skill specializations or access to exotic weapon proficiency? That way someone who wanted to play a Jaffa who turned against the Goa'uld (radical and original concept I know) would be able to take a science/medic roll rather than be locked into a soldier. They'd probably have some extra weapon and armor training or extra technology knowledge sure but if they wanted to play a pacifist support character they wouldn't be at any particular penalty or disadvantage. The same could be applied for random natives from other planets or even people of earth without millitary training. I think it'd be a good idea if Classes more represented "on the job" training and specialized positions within squad structure. Someone who's grown up using spears their whole life can learn pretty quick how to fire a gun (soldier) given the opportunity. 

[Painter306]

I think you have to choices.

1. Go classless with backgrounds like the old starwars d6 system or three white wolf stuff.

 

2. Go 5e style classes,  I see why someone would want a class that doesa little of everything but those classes are generally considered bad i.e. the bars.  

 

Personally I like 5es class system, although I would make the following changes to enhance the multi class aspects.  1. Bring back char and class level separation. 2. Tie the 5e ability score increases/feat selection to the char level not the class level.  Most 5e campaigns dont get to lvl 10 let alone 20 and because of the subclass features, class features and asi classes like paladin give up a lot if they mc before lvl 6  or are a drag on the party until the build comes "online" at higher levels.

Think pally/warlock.  To get the asi you need to take 4 levels in either class, if you want to focus pally great but one of your nicest abilities ( aura of prot) gets delayed 5 levels so you can take 3 lvls of lock hexblade. Now you're a 4/3 who should get a asi next char level but would have to waste another level on warlock for it and give up a higher level pally ability.   Similar happens they either way when you take 6 levels of pally for aop but now your 4 levels out for the asi  when the rest of the party is 2 lvls out.   

Since the ability score increases and Prof bonus increases function as difficulty bands missing out on them due to a mc choice is a huge disadvantage and limits rp choices to not be a burden.

 

I don't feel focused classes are a bad thing. Oniell was useless with tech and Daniel useless at combat for a long time.  Carter was either a mc or a sci based mix class.. Maybe ranger like?  can fight but has specific knowledge. Tealc was the other way fighter base with tech knowledge.. Could also be a racial bonus.  Jaffa get a Prof in goauld tech.

[CopperTitan]

Not 100% sure how StarWars did it but you could do away with the class system idea all together and let pick from a pool of feats with certain perquisites. Give the player a starting point with their background and basically treat every level after 1 as an ASI with some of the feats locked behind perquisites involving levels, stats, or in some cases other feats. Would be harder to balance overall but players could build specialists or Jakc-of-All-Trades characters without bringing down the party or becoming The Chosen One. I suggest taking a look at how Dragon Age does their leveling system. Am playing a game right now where 3 of us are the same class but we're COMPLETELY different characters covering different roles within the party.

[Mal]

If it's based on 5e there will be classes and backgrounds. Classes are classes, backgrounds add to the number of skills you're proficient in. Provided there are enough backgrounds for diverse choices it should be all good in that sense. 

What the actual classes are and what their abilities are is another question altogether. The rules must already be fairly advanced as there has been playtesting already. We won't really be able to get a good idea of how the classes need to be changed or tweaked until we have a bit more information.

[Master_Gillo]

It's been mentioned that there will be 6 classes so my guess is that it'll be similar to d20 modern in that each class is tied to one of the ability scores.

i.e. a strong class, a quick class, a tough class, a smart class, a wise class and a charismatic class.

Just a theory at this point.

[Mal]

6 hours ago, Master_Gillo said:

It's been mentioned that there will be 6 classes so my guess is that it'll be similar to d20 modern in that each class is tied to one of the ability scores.

i.e. a strong class, a quick class, a tough class, a smart class, a wise class and a charismatic class.

Just a theory at this point.

Probably on to something there!

[Kilrex]

I would like to see classes having a limited effect on the types of characters created. I don't like systems where certain classes are needed to have a balanced group. I would prefer classes to grant bonuses for certain things rather than having exclusive uses of certain skills. Like scientists getting better checks at figuring out Goa'uld tech, linguists getting better checks to figure out new languages, fighters at fighting, etc.

If this is just another d20 Modern clone, I will be saddened but still play it. The old AEG version was an okay game. There was nothing special to really set it apart. 

[NickEast]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:50 PM, Kilrex said:

I would like to see classes having a limited effect on the types of characters created. I don't like systems where certain classes are needed to have a balanced group. I would prefer classes to grant bonuses for certain things rather than having exclusive uses of certain skills. Like scientists getting better checks at figuring out Goa'uld tech, linguists getting better checks to figure out new languages, fighters at fighting, etc.

If this is just another d20 Modern clone, I will be saddened but still play it. The old AEG version was an okay game. There was nothing special to really set it apart. 

AFAIK, 5e is very different from its predecessors. This version of a Stargate RPG simply cannot be a d20 Modern clone, because d20 Modern is based on 3e. In vanilla 5e, every character has the same fixed list of skills. The skill level depends on the abilities, which in turn can have racial (species) bonuses. Classes determine which skills someone is "proficient" in, which adds an additional bonus.

[Sazeral]

On 9/13/2019 at 9:06 AM, Securepuddle444 said:

What sort of class system do you think the game should use? Or do you think it should be classless?

Why not both?

[GreatLordD]

Well D&D does race and class. So race would be self evident for what that would do in a stargate game. But classes are not clear cut in stargate. I mean Sam Carter is a scientist but is also a soldier so is that going to be multitasking. 

Or do  have you class as the basic role you fulfil in the team, which give you basic abilities in line with that role. But then you have additional points to spend on buying secondary abilities. So you could play as the archaeologist of the group but because of some of the more treacherous areas you been doing digs in, you pointed out to be able to handle guns for your own defense and thus become more rounded out.

Or do you double down on being uber geek?

[NickEast]

3 hours ago, GreatLordD said:

Well D&D does race and class. So race would be self evident for what that would do in a stargate game. But classes are not clear cut in stargate. I mean Sam Carter is a scientist but is also a soldier so is that going to be multitasking. 

Or do  have you class as the basic role you fulfil in the team, which give you basic abilities in line with that role. But then you have additional points to spend on buying secondary abilities. So you could play as the archaeologist of the group but because of some of the more treacherous areas you been doing digs in, you pointed out to be able to handle guns for your own defense and thus become more rounded out.

Or do you double down on being uber geek?

D&D supports multiclassing. The original Spycraft-based Stargate RPG from Alderac used that to represent Carter.

[GreatLordD]

I'm just not a fan of multi classing. But that just a personal preference.

[NickEast]

The thing is, Stargate is going to use the 5e system. If that's the case, then the only way to support those kinds of roles like Carter is to use multiclassing. If any of the class, skill, and ability mechanics change, then it's not 5e anymore, but a different system. Does that mean they have to stick to the 5e mechanics 100%, I don't know. Maybe not. But it was probably a conscious choice to use 5e. And I for one think they should. Otherwise why use it in the first place and not just create a new system, or just create a setting supplement for universal systems like FATE or Savage Worlds? I backed The Spy Game on Kickstarter, which also uses 5e, and they explicitly stated that they chose 5e and they will stick to it. They're not going to change the mechanics, because otherwise choosing 5e would be pointless and would require more work.

But of course that's just my opinion

[JackOneill]

Hi -

Based on my GenCon playtest there were specifically 6 named classes. This information was pre-alpha playtest so it is subject to change and Brad asked that we not divulge too much information. I.E. they do not want to set expectations that the rules have to the same as the playtest.

1. Soldier
2. Scout
3. Diplomat
4. Engineer
5. Medic
6. ?

Each character also had a race.

Wording like "feats" was not used, so that is still up in the air.

There are definitely class abilities and racial abilities.

[Bragnak]

On 10/17/2019 at 8:19 PM, Sazeral said:

Why not both?

Perfect answer  I saw almost all interview of wyvern games about this project and I am so excited to see your, to my mind, unique idea