Marine vs air force and space currency

[chpexplorer]

Are marines going to be a thing in the game because sg1 was air force but there were several us marine teams most notably sg3 and if marines are in the game will there be any difference between them and the air force.  More combat abilities over say the abilty to fly or something like that.  Lastly is there going to be some sort of space currency so that you can say trick out your room in game with stuff from earth or off world you can buy.

[Deriachai]

One of my players is playing a Marine, and while it would have made sense to change the pilot skill out, we didn't

Basically just ends up being a RP element

[Erich P]

I am of a similar mind set, its a RP thing, and the GM can align with the player to remove Pilot and replace with a different skill set as the situation requires.

[tetrasodium]

3 hours ago, chpexplorer said:

Are marines going to be a thing in the game because sg1 was air force but there were several us marine teams most notably sg3 and if marines are in the game will there be any difference between them and the air force.  More combat abilities over say the abilty to fly or something like that.  Lastly is there going to be some sort of space currency so that you can say trick out your room in game with stuff from earth or off world you can buy.

I don't think that stargate ever introduced any form of currency including worlds that were advanced enough to make its development an absolute certainty.Most worlds were still in barter phases of trade,  I think the closest they came to touching on it was when they found an outpost with a holigraphic display in ancient/asgard/1-2 others that showed all the known elements plus a few more that they figured was used in trade between those civilizations in the episode Torment of Tantalus

Edit:  With that said it's probably a good idea to introduce some form of currency, probably by tech level.  A TL 0/1 civilization probably doesn't have as much vlue for naquadah or advanced metal alloys but puts a lot of value in bags of grain (ie corn/wheat/barley/rice/flour/etc) while a stable TL2/3++ civ is likely able to source their own staple foods like grains but has a lot of use for raw materials & rare elements.  That sort of table might be useful for conversion of trade goods between civs.

Edited August 11, 2020 by tetrasodium

[chpexplorer]

I see. But i still feel like there should be some form of currency to buy stuff from say the lucian alliance or other cultures and people. That way you can have the really cool insert here bed or computer or movie in your room or maybe buy a place to stay in town how do you pay for the inn thats just the reason i ask

Edited August 11, 2020 by chpexplorer

[chpexplorer]

Well i hope they manage to throw something in there it might help the game a little. 

[watchcrafter]

5 hours ago, tetrasodium said:

has a lot of use for raw materials & rare elements

I've only run about three episodes of a homebrew campaign, but on the few occasions trade has come up, I've usually used bars of Naquadah for pretty much this exact reason.  Also 'cause in Vala's first episode in S8 she's trading the Prometheus for a crate of it.  It feels like a good standard for a barter economy, not a full currency, but a mineral with a generally accepted value/use that can be obtained by a wide variety people by a wide variety of means

[tetrasodium]

12 minutes ago, watchcrafter said:

I've only run about three episodes of a homebrew campaign, but on the few occasions trade has come up, I've usually used bars of Naquadah for pretty much this exact reason.  Also 'cause in Vala's first episode in S8 she's trading the Prometheus for a crate of it.  It feels like a good standard for a barter economy, not a full currency, but a mineral with a generally accepted value/use that can be obtained by a wide variety people by a wide variety of means

Yea it's not a bad currency, just there's a big difference between baking in a currency & having the gm need to make something up. If it's baked in then the players can look at a list & get a vague estimation for what some basics might cost if supply & conditions were not influencing it.  It's fine to do a resources ability or something instead, just they should pick something & bake it in

[watchcrafter]

3 minutes ago, tetrasodium said:

Yea it's not a bad currency, just there's a big difference between baking in a currency & having the gm need to make something up. If it's baked in then the players can look at a list & get a vague estimation for what some basics might cost if supply & conditions were not influencing it.  It's fine to do a resources ability or something instead, just they should pick something & bake it in

I mean, I totally get why from a game function perspective - there's a reason why vanilla 5e has a currency baked in - but I personally Stargate as a show/setting doesn't have a galactic standard currency.  I know there's been a lot of debate about when game mechanics beat out the setting, but this doesn't feel like one of those.  Imposing a galactic standard currency to me just doesn't jive with the setting, and for the most part, all the equipment/food/rest needs that currency helps with in standard 5e are hand-waved thanks to the near endless resources of Phoenix Site in the game, and the SGC in the show.

[tetrasodium]

6 minutes ago, watchcrafter said:

I mean, I totally get why from a game function perspective - there's a reason why vanilla 5e has a currency baked in - but I personally Stargate as a show/setting doesn't have a galactic standard currency.  I know there's been a lot of debate about when game mechanics beat out the setting, but this doesn't feel like one of those.  Imposing a galactic standard currency to me just doesn't jive with the setting, and for the most part, all the equipment/food/rest needs that currency helps with in standard 5e are hand-waved thanks to the near endless resources of Phoenix Site in the game, and the SGC in the show.

You misunderstand.  Right now you can look at the value we place on gasoline, a bar of naquadah, various precious metals & gemstones, rare elements used in high tech production, advanced alloys , grain prices, & so forth to make a simple chart saying an average civilization of our tech level puts a value of X pounds of gems & rare metals for Y pounds of advanced alloys & has such a low value on grain that the price for Z pounds of rare elements would be measured in tons.  Commodities are useful for trade because pretty much everyone needs them provided they are advanced enough to use them.

[akaramis]

There's also the issue that the tech levels also bake in differences in minerals extraction...

TL 0 is hands and stone, bone or bronze tools, which limits digging to relatively soft stones or in soil, and maybe 200-500 l/day

TL1, withiron tools, the rates can go to low  kiloliters (kl=m³) per day per person, by drill and blast, and medium rocks.

TL2, we get up to low hundreds of m³ per day per person... mostly by machine assist.

TL3, peak current, we get high hundreds of m³ per day per person, due to better machines.

Likewise, TL0, the known extractions are mostly heat and maybe hammers.

TL1 is hammers and possibly wind or water driven hammer mills. Later on, steam mills and chemistry

TL2 is grinding machines, better chemistry, and extraction commercially viable for poorer ores

TL3 improves the grinding, chemistry, and reduced costs to extract.

A kilo of copper in a TL 0 culture is a person·month or more. TL 1 it's a week or more. TL2 it's part of a day's work TL3, it's about an hour's work or less.

A kilo of billet steel is of little value to a TL0 culture - they can't work it with their techniques. TL1 it's a couple weeks work (based upon japanese sand harvesting being 2-3 weeks for a katana; mined is faster out of the ground, but has to be converted to workable form.) TL2, it's a couple hours base labor to buy. TL3, it's still an hour's base pay for base level labor per kg. (4.5kg for US$39 for bar stock... plus shipping.) But a sword made from that steel is good for all TL's, albeit it's still measurable in personḋays in a decreasing number by TL.

Any such comparison list is going to need to account for the vast differences in extraction, preparation, and forming into the needed tool if it's going to be of use.

 

[Lofwyr]

On 8/11/2020 at 9:02 PM, chpexplorer said:

Are marines going to be a thing in the game because sg1 was air force but there were several us marine teams most notably sg3 and if marines are in the game will there be any difference between them and the air force.  More combat abilities over say the abilty to fly or something like that.  Lastly is there going to be some sort of space currency so that you can say trick out your room in game with stuff from earth or off world you can buy.

Like many here I say playing a USMC marine or Army's Delta Operator is more of a rp element. IE "drop that skill and choose that one instead".

[akaramis]

On 8/11/2020 at 12:24 PM, Erich P said:

I am of a similar mind set, its a RP thing, and the GM can align with the player to remove Pilot and replace with a different skill set as the situation requires.

There are a good number of GMs who won't be so slack about it.

I tend to be one of those.

[EinherjarLucian]

I don't think Naqadah is going to be a major trade item since it can be used for weapons, but Trinium and other less-weaponizable elements and alloys for sure.

[EinherjarLucian]

You also don't have to assume that every service member in the SGC is going to be a Soldier class. You're likely to see military service members in all six of the in-game classes.

[akaramis]

7 hours ago, EinherjarLucian said:

You also don't have to assume that every service member in the SGC is going to be a Soldier class. You're likely to see military service members in all six of the in-game classes.

As an example... My group decided to be a season 1 setting, with all the PCs being USAF. We have

• the captain being a Jet Jock - who served under O'Neill in 1993-1994. Soldier
• the academy grad who spent his 2 years of 2nd lieutenant at NASA, first as a SR71 pilot in training, then at the Antarctic Mars Simulation. (Engineer, Artificial BG)
• a Pathfinder/Special Recon SSgt, (Scout)
• A medic SSgt. (Medic)
• A civil service PhD geologist/geographer specializing in extreme environments biospheres. (Scientist)

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by akaramis

[EinherjarLucian]

Exactly. And as you showed, not every squad member has to be a line officer. A Captain, a Lieutenant, and two SSgt's is a pretty good comp (plus the civilian).

[Targalf]

Back to the currency question, Season 1 Episode 3 (or 4 depending on the way you want to count them) (BD ep 3) Emancipation, the currency used there was gold coins.

[Grokken]

On 8/11/2020 at 1:02 PM, chpexplorer said:

Are marines going to be a thing in the game because sg1 was air force but there were several us marine teams most notably sg3 and if marines are in the game will there be any difference between them and the air force.  More combat abilities over say the abilty to fly or something like that.  Lastly is there going to be some sort of space currency so that you can say trick out your room in game with stuff from earth or off world you can buy.

I think any military could be apt.  Combat medics for the marines come from the navy so they'd be involved if the marines were.  Military has in the past used their own currency in cases where they did not want to use US currency or local forms.  Military Script has a pretty long history.  It'd only be usable on base.  I would expect that the Phoenix site and the locals would share a currency.  For other worlds, barter would be the best choice.  Most don't have off-world contacts and would each have a different currency, and that'd be a pain to track.

[SteveR]

18 hours ago, Grokken said:

I think any military could be apt.  Combat medics for the marines come from the navy so they'd be involved if the marines were.  Military has in the past used their own currency in cases where they did not want to use US currency or local forms.  Military Script has a pretty long history.  It'd only be usable on base.  I would expect that the Phoenix site and the locals would share a currency.  For other worlds, barter would be the best choice.  Most don't have off-world contacts and would each have a different currency, and that'd be a pain to track.

We're on ep 2, and when the PCs went out on the town I said they received US dollars to spend at the tavern or otherwise in town.  SG never really dealt much with interstellar economies, so I figured DM's discretion!

[Grokken]

On 12/26/2021 at 7:38 PM, SteveR said:

We're on ep 2, and when the PCs went out on the town I said they received US dollars to spend at the tavern or otherwise in town.  SG never really dealt much with interstellar economies, so I figured DM's discretion!

yeah, that works.  I have (somewhere stored away in my house) an old mason jar that has some left over military script that my dad brought back from WW2.  Next campaign I run, currently in the middle of a CoC campaign, I'll probably just go with military script and some base weight gold coins or barter goods for off-world use.

[Pyremius]

One advantage of an SGC script would be that the SGC can control currency conversions.  All local currency must be left behind (if you're expecting to return) or converted back to SGC script before leaving.  The SGC then convert script on request, based on what doesn't break the local or destination economy.  If a beer at the local bar costs $5, then a team member converting $50 of script gets about 10 beer's worth of local currency for whatever planet they're on/heading to.  Since the game isn't really "wormhole trader", exploiting local economies like that would be frowned upon at best (that's for the politicians to profit from, not the grunts).

[Dace]

On 8/11/2020 at 5:58 PM, chpexplorer said:

I see. But i still feel like there should be some form of currency to buy stuff from say the lucian alliance or other cultures and people. That way you can have the really cool insert here bed or computer or movie in your room or maybe buy a place to stay in town how do you pay for the inn thats just the reason i ask

 

I don't think the game needs a space currency. For starters, worrying about money kinda sorta goes against the spirit of the show. Like how often did the SG teams have to worry about needing money to trick out their room as you put it. If it's a matter of tricking out your room then as a GM just let them have whatever they want. It's their room on base, they won't have much stuff there to begin with and I see no good reason why a GM should be nickling and diming his players on whether or not they make enough money to afford that Milli Vanilli poster they have hanging in their locker. 

Plus currency is going to vary wildly. For military personal it's super easy. You can look online right now and find out how much a PC will make based on their rank. But it's all kinda moot since they can't spend their paycheck on another planet. Most planets didn't evolve to a point where they were making use of currency. Most planets they visited worked on a barter system. Remember that episode where Valla had to track down a pendant so she could get a device off of her and Daniel? They didn't use currency. At every step it was a matter of trading goods and services. 

As such, the source material makes it very clear that money isn't really a thing and it isn't really a concern SG teams have. And a barter system is best left to the GM to create because a lot of how a barter system is going to work is going to be based on the unique nature of the planet they are on. Being as how there isn't like a universal economy with trade happening from one planet to the next anything that the game could release is going to be super generic and likely vague and disappointing. 

In a real general sense, I question any GM who is making their players actually pay for stuff. Just give the players what they want. So long as it's not game breaking a player should be allowed to get nick nacks and other odds and ends at no real cost. Just assume they took the necessary steps to get it. If there is something the player can't reasonably get then that sounds like an adventure seed.

Basically, there are more important things to worry about in an SG game than money. For most things its faster and easier to just let the PCs have small odds and ends instead of making them find a local shop and then having to buy it. Assume the PCs has the resources to get most normal things with no real problem.  When a PC actually needs to buy something and the costs actually matter it should be a function of the adventure itself. Kinda like the episode where Vala had to track down a pendant in order to find out how to work an Ancient device. Every step of the way was a trade deal and each trade deal was very different and highly situational. Thus it was an adventure unto itself. Or if you don't want to make an adventure just turn it into a roll. Set the DC based on how rare you think the item is and then the player explains how they are going about getting the item and that will determine which Stat the roll will be based off of. If the PC is going to get the item by offering to show up once a week to teach a self defense class then they can roll their Str or Dex. If they are going to trade precious metals then they can use their Cha to represent the PC and the owner haggling over the price. 

I get how our capitalist trained brains want us to track money and costs and what not but really Stargate isn't the kind of game where one should be worried about money and whether or not you have enough of it to get some random item for your room on another planet.