Comments after a few episodes

[Algernon Pike]

What we need from this point on in the discussion is a Marine, or other combat vet to come on and set us straight. Until that time, we're just going to keep butting heads and making anecdotal arguments.

[Bahamut_A6M5]

I don't have to defend the current ranges because they aren't at fault. The issue is how 5e manages the long range disadvantage versus short range. In 3e, attacking at max range imposed a -18 to attack roll; in Cyberpunk, attacking at a weapon max range had difficulty 30 (hard even for a experienced shooter with REF 10 and fitting weapon skill 10; she would still need to roll a 10 in a d10) under normal conditions. So, whereas other systems have come on top this issue, be the range 50, 100 or 1,000 meters, 5e falls behind because of the short/long range mechanics.

Also, Tetrasodium, I recall you started all this whinning about weapon ranges because you had issues with commercial mats not being big enough to represent engagements with firearms even at short range. Or the VTTs having problems dealing with too many cells in maps as to represent the range figures of certain weapons. And, in this topic, as you came complaining about weapon ranges again, you brought the mats and the VTTs. Again.

If you have an actual issue with weapon ranges that don't actually involve size of mats nor VTT issues with memory nor floating points, I would gladly hear it.

Just food for thoughts: any issue you think you have with a pistol having a 50/100 meters range in SGP will be the same issue even if you reduce it to something like 20/40 meters.

[Deriachai]

5 hours ago, Algernon Pike said:

What we need from this point on in the discussion is a Marine, or other combat vet to come on and set us straight. Until that time, we're just going to keep butting heads and making anecdotal arguments.

You ask, I deliver. I just asked a friend of mine who is currently in the Army. The following numbers should be read as a standard accuracy range, I would argue that the way we would apply them would be the combat distances would be a good first increment distance. Ideally with more like the 3.5 ish range increments than the 5e ones, but I can be only so picky.

 

Target: (based on ratings for fire arms)
Pistol: 50 yards
SMG: 200 yards
Rifle: 500 yards
Sniper: 1800 yard

Combat: of course fuzzy
Pistol: 20 yards
SMG: 100 yards
Rifle: 200 yard
Sniper: Undefined.

 

[tetrasodium]

4 hours ago, Algernon Pike said:

What we need from this point on in the discussion is a Marine, or other combat vet to come on and set us straight. Until that time, we're just going to keep butting heads and making anecdotal arguments.

huh?... I'm not sure I get your point, it sounds like you are trying to say that a tabletop roleplaying game should try to accurately model a military engagement even if that modeling does not actually work within the confines or play to the strengths of how it is being modeled? something else? You might want to get on those wormholes hyperdrives zat disintegration & so much more  with the laws of physics if that's the case.

 

3 hours ago, Bahamut_A6M5 said:

I don't have to defend the current ranges because they aren't at fault. The issue is how 5e manages the long range disadvantage versus short range. In 3e, attacking at max range imposed a -18 to attack roll; in Cyberpunk, attacking at a weapon max range had difficulty 30 (hard even for a experienced shooter with REF 10 and fitting weapon skill 10; she would still need to roll a 10 in a d10) under normal conditions. So, whereas other systems have come on top this issue, be the range 50, 100 or 1,000 meters, 5e falls behind because of the short/long range mechanics.

Also, Tetrasodium, I recall you started all this whinning about weapon ranges because you had issues with commercial mats not being big enough to represent engagements with firearms even at short range. Or the VTTs having problems dealing with too many cells in maps as to represent the range figures of certain weapons. And, in this topic, as you came complaining about weapon ranges again, you brought the mats and the VTTs. Again.

If you have an actual issue with weapon ranges that don't actually involve size of mats nor VTT issues with memory nor floating points, I would gladly hear it.

Just food for thoughts: any issue you think you have with a pistol having a 50/100 meters range in SGP will be the same issue even if you reduce it to something like 20/40 meters.

You continue to pretend that this is not a tabletop rpg built for a setting  By your argument the TV series was complete trash and was a badwrong version because the special effects budget was far lower than the movie due to the constraints of a weekly tv series.  Because we are discussing a tabletop rpg, the constraints of a tabletop rpg need serious consideration.  Try as you might, the needs of a tabletop RPG are inseperable from this discussionbecause it's a discussion about a tabletop rpg no matter how hard you try to argue from a position of absolute authority.

 

Your refusal to concede those problems or argue the merits of ranges as is  speaks volumes to the instability of your argument.  Even if you ignore the medium crushing battlemat/vtt problems caused by the current ranges you still refuse to dive into the Theater of the mind problems Deriachi pointed out with the excessive specifics defined within ranges. a ttrpg should A: work great with a battlemat/vtt with lots of stuff that is really enhanced by that style of running/p;aying the game, B: Work great with theater of the mind style gameplay with lots of ways to really spotlight the powerful flexibility and highlighted narrative, or C : Some combination that floats comfortably between those two extremes.  The current rules result in  D : a bizarre combination that is problematic with all three and flails poorly in each rather than leaning into any.   Sure there might be an E style, but you've thus far been utterly unwilling to even hint at an attempt to describe it.  Last night you tried to claim that there were ttrpgs that lean heavy into totm  and snub the power of narrative over hard and specific numbers as successful examples of D, but when asked  to name some went strangely quiet & changed the subject.

It's not just commercial mats, using a scale of 1 inch to 1 meter, the 200/1800 range p90 requires a mat that is 16.6feet/150ft  (5.08M/45072M).  That is utterly unworkable for the needs of a tabletop rpg.  There is a reason why so many ttrpgs do not use 1 as the smallest unit of measurement & that gets into it. Changing the size of a square ion the fly is a disaster for a whole legion of reasons that include violations of the laws of physics.. that combined with the total inability to model a fractional square & resulting disasters when you start trying to is the reason why a square on the grid represents the smallest unit of measurement in a system.  Space ships & vehicles in motion create some exceptions, but those don't even factor in because of the way even small arms ranges are so extreme.  

would a pistol with 20/40 fix the problems? not as long as the smallest unit of measurement is 1, however it barely brings the pistol into the realm of something that fits within the limitations of being modeled in a tabletop rpg while still doing nothing for things like the p90  & other such weapons that sport ranges entirely incompatible with the medium as the system's baselines are structured using 1m increments rather than 2 5 or 10.

Also, you didn't raise even a single benefit of the ranges as is within the baselines of the system.  Since you are incapable of accepting that a ttrpg should work within the confines of a ttrpg or lean to the strengths of one, here is a real tangible issue courtesy of someone in discord trying to use it as an example of how the ranges are good in combination of the firefight rules.

Scene: The SGP team are trying to get a bunch of refugees back to the gate. They are being chased on foot be Jaffa and the Gliders are scouting the area to try and locate the SGP team members that are trying to lay an ambush. The gate is some 500m from the town where the refugees were located

You have the following party
- Alice: diplomat proficient in Common weapons, Sidearms. Max range bow: 50/200
- Bill: a scout proficient in Common weapons, Martial Arts, Bows, Sidearms, ShotgunsMax range bow: 50/200
- Dawn: Medic proficient in Common weapons, Sidearms, Shotguns Max range bow: 50/200
- Eddie: A scientist proficient in Common weapons, Sidearms, ExplosivesMax range bow: 50/200
- Francine: engineer proficient in  Common weapons, Sidearms, Longarms Max range longarm 200/1800
- Greg: a soldier proficient in Common weapons, Martial Arts, Sidearms, LongarmsMax rangeLongarm 200/1800

Page ten has a section titled "Other Gaming Tools" that mentions theater of the mind(totm) & grid map+minis that covers both battlemats & vtts, despite your repeated assertions there is no  third way mentioned & you've yet to describe much more than "use notepad" and "adapt".

Lets use that stellar example of how the ranges as is & firefight rules really make for a winning gameplay experience with  hypothetical totm game.
-GM: "Ok, the refugees are in town 500 meters away & you need to help them flee from the jaffa to the stargate whereyou are"
-Alice Bill Dawn & eddie laugh & note that their sidearm is 50/100 so they are going to be running for the next several rounds with a sigh.
- Francine & Greg note the scope on their long arm & proceed to start shooting jaffa from the gate with no penalty.  Given the 3/60 range on the jaffa staff weapon & 20/100 on the long range staff cannon.
- GM: "No uhh you see it's really far so Francine & greg you can't do that because.... obstacle" 
- all players: Well lets work our way closer to the fleeing refugees.. How far are we?
- GM about halfway, the refugees are really in a panic & the jaffa are really doing a number on them, looks like this module was written assuming you'd have killed 5-6 of the jaffa over the last 10 turns of dashing 12m/round& having to track everyone based on needlessly precise1m increments.
-Alice Bill Dawn & eddie note that half of five hundred is still more than 50/100 & make a mental note to remember from game two on to ditch the pistol in favor of those bow the refugees have since it's also 1d6 damage but longer range
- GM notices and makes a note to remember
- Francine & greg: I start shooting at the jaffa
- repeat for the next few rounds unil it starts being time to fallback to the gate with refugees  while shooting.
- after session report: gM... uhh... this was a trainwreck. Alice Bill Dawn & eddie: what the heck was that?! Why did I come today?! Francine & greg: Why do I have this off the chart range weapon if it breaks the game using it?!
 
Totm using the short/medium/long ranges that tend to be in place with systems Deriachai raised & names shortened to first letters.
- GM: Ok you got sent through the gate to p4x11111 o rescue some refugees fleeing from the jaffa.  There is a town about an 20 minute walk away & maybe half that if you run.
- Players: Can we see the town?
- GM: Yea there are some trees & hills that are in the way sometimes, but you can see the simple primitve stone buildings & see that there are people there.  The Jaffa are clearly making villagers do labor.
-Greg: are we close to long range yet?
- GM:  not just yet but you walk a few more minutes & are in range
- Francine: can I make out any commander types?
- back & forth... survey says yes!
- Francine: I point them out to greg & we start shooting using my scope to ignore the range penalty
-Alice Bill Dawn & eddie:Our sidearms only do short & medium range, we close to medium range & start shooting
- Thefour of them move forward one zone to  enter range of shooting & being shot at by both staff weapons & staff cannons
- Things continue well but this example assumes totm focused ranges are bake in rather than tacked on.  If tacked on, the gm will need to interrupt the action to adjudicate how a skill with x meter range works in short/medium/long ranges.

Lets go with a battlemat or vtt...
Since the example was brought up to show how ranges and the 1m>10m square work in progress is a good thing... Right away bill & greg are going to be shooting anything getting near the refugees& with a speed of 6m move at a speed of 0 squares 1.2 squares 1.8 squares 2.4 squares, & so on  If they are dashing it's 1.2 2.4 3.6 & so on.  Not only is tracking that movement impossible that fraction is insanely important to some of them because Alice Bill Dawn & eddie are using the logical 50/100 sidearm giving them a range of 5-10 squares & the jaffa chasung refugees in the example of how these ranges shine are 500m(50 squares away)

Right away Alice & greg are going to ignore the disadvantage thanks to use the scope on their longarm & begin shooting the Jaffa 500m away. Alice Dawn Eddie & Francine are going to spend the next dozen or so rounds dashing towards the jaffa chasing the refugees with the rounds to close largely depending on how direct the jaffa & refugees are. Meanwhile bill & greg have been making a normal attack roll every round, the combat was either an epic slog where 4 of the six players literally did nothing but try to get in range or things started at a closer & more reasonable range that makes the current extreme ranges a pointless hassle rather than an improvement.

The ranges & baselines providing the structure supporting them are very problematic no matter which of the styles noted on page 10 you use when using an example someone on discord showed the strength  these ranges & firefight encounter rules.  If the ranges were more reasonable or the baseline rules structure did a better job supporting them the players might be working together, trying to help along the refugees, drawing fire, trying to use cover & so on through the rolling battle, but instead we have these ranges & supporting rules structure.  You keep saying that grid mats & totm re just an option to dismiss the very real problems caused for trying to run a game in one of those styles but thus far have declined to paint a picture of these rules providing a smooth & engaging gameplay experience or even vaguely describe it.  

It's extremely clear that your argument & tone of absokute authority comes from the level of extreme inexperience that keeps you from being able to describe such an example of gameplay... but it'stime to dial back that absolute authority (currently your at about a 12 on a scale of 1-10) or start showing the one true way not related to using totm or grid maps that not even the introduction on page 10 could hint to.  It's ok to be inexperienced, everyone has their first time playing a ttrpg & every gm at some point took that first scary step that goes with running the world for a bunch of friends.

 

 

 

[1001100x02]

11 hours ago, Deriachai said:

You mention "A trained soldier firing an M16 can consistently hit a target over 500m away."

Recall, that in a system like this, all attacks are being done with effectively no aiming time, while running and being shot at, not at a target range.

Within 6 seconds a character can move 6m, and shoot, while being shot at, or having other effects.

Those are situational modifiers, which as we've seen from the rules introduced in the gencon quick start guide are easily introduced. They have nothing to do with the physical capabilities of the weapon itself and trying to baseline nerf weapons to make up for the failure of GMs is poor design methodology

Attacking following movement without taking the aim action aka "firing from the hip" should just flat out reduce all ranges by half; Surge serves nicely as a significantly priced character option to negate this inherent penalty on a once per combat basis. (Consequently, the Hip Fire feat really should be renamed to Point-blank Fire or even Melee Fire.)

Edited August 5, 2020 by 1001100x02

[Deriachai]

1 hour ago, 1001100x02 said:

Those are situational modifiers, which as we've seen from the rules introduced in the gencon quick start guide are easily introduced. They have nothing to do with the physical capabilities of the weapon itself and trying to baseline nerf weapons to make up for the failure of GMs is poor design methodology

Attacking following movement without taking the aim action aka "firing from the hip" should just flat out reduce all ranges by half; Surge serves nicely as a significantly priced character option to negate this inherent penalty on a once per combat basis. (Consequently, the Hip Fire feat really should be renamed to Point-blank Fire or even Melee Fire.)

Except the default numbers are exactly shooting from the hip.
Maybe we should do such affects, but that isn't how the rules are currently written.
Hence talking about it in a comments thread.

[1001100x02]

1 hour ago, Deriachai said:

Except the default numbers are exactly shooting from the hip.
 

Which was entirely my point. You don't make the weapon less efficient just because you don't want better results on a less efficient RL attack move. You modify the check based on whether the tool is being used correctly, not modify the tool itself to bias the check into giving the results you want.

[Iki]

The DnD 5E Dungeon master guide (pg 267 - 268) has already listed various modern weapons. I includes some of my own ideas and I came up with the following:

 

Weapon:	Tech Level:	Damage:	Type:	Weapon Category:	Range:	Capacity:	Reload:	Bulk:
Flamethrower	2	2d10	Fire	Flamethrower	Special 15m line or 10m cone	—	1 min	2	Ammunition, reload, two-handed
Grenade – Flashbang			—	Throwing	4m/18m	—	—		Thrown, noisy
Grenade – Fragmentation	2	4d6	Force	Throwing	4m/18m	—	—	1 per 3	Thrown, noisy
Grenade – Smoke	2	—	—	Throwing	4m/18m	—	—	1 per 3	Thrown
Grenade – Launcher	2	4d6	—	Longarm	8m/24m	6	2 actions	2	Ammunition, reload, two-handed
Pistol – Automatic	2	2d6	Piercing	Sidearm	10m/30m	15	1 action	1	Ammunition, reload, noisy
Revolver	2	2d8	Piercing	Sidearm	8m/24m	6	1 action	1	Ammunition, reload, noisy
Rifle – Automatic	2	2d8	Piercing	Longarm	16m/48m	30	1 action	2	Ammunition, burst fire, reload, two-handed, noisy
Rifle – Hunting	2	2d10	Piercing	Longarm	16m/48m	5	1 action	2	Ammunition, reload, two-handed, noisy
Rifle – Sniper	2	2d10	Piercing	Longarm	30m/120m	5	1 action	2	Ammunition, reload, two-handed, noisy
RPG	2	6d6	Fire & Force	RPG	16m/48m	1	3 actions	3	Ammunition, reload, two-handed, noisy
Shotgun	2	2d8	Piercing	Shotgun	6m/18m	5	1 action	2	Ammunition, reload, two-handed, noisy
SMG	2	2d8	Piercing	Longarm	12m/36m	30	1 action	2	Ammunition, burst fire, reload, two-handed, noisy

 

PROPERTIES:

Firearms use special ammunition, and some of them have the burst fire or reload property.

Ammunition: The ammunition of a firearm is destroyed upon use. Renaissance and modern firearms use bullets. Futuristic firearms are powered by a special type of ammunition called energy cells. An energy cell contains enough power for all the shots its firearm can make.

Burst Fire: A weapon that has the burst fire property can make a normal single-target attack, or it can spray a 2 by 2m-cube area within normal range with shots. Each creature in the area must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or take the weapon's normal damage. This action uses ten pieces of ammunition.

Noisy: This weapon makes a lot of noise and easily to detect.

Reload: A limited number of shots can be made with a weapon that has the reload property. A character must then reload it using an action or a bonus action (the character's choice).

 

WEAPONS:

Grenade - Flashbang: A flashbang is a non-lethal explosive device used to temporarily disorient an enemy's senses. It is designed to produce a blinding flash of light and an intensely loud "bang" without causing permanent injury. Targets damaged by a Flashbang must pass a DC 15 Constitution save or be made blind and deaf until end of their next turn.

Grenade – Smoke: One round after a smoke grenade lands, it emits a cloud of smoke that creates a heavily obscured area in a 20-foot radius. A moderate wind (at least 10 miles per hour) disperses the smoke in 4 rounds; a strong wind (20 or more miles per hour) disperses it in 1 round.

 

EQUIPMENT UPGRADES:

Silencer/suppressor: This device reduces the acoustic intensity of the sound of gunfire and eliminates muzzle flash when a gun is discharged. Remove the noisy property of sidearm or longarm that is equipped with this upgrade.

Scope: A scope can be applied to almost any longarm. Multiply the range of the weapon by 10 if the user does not move in the same turn as the shot is taken. A proficient user removes the disadvantage caused by long range in those same conditions.

 

FEATS - COMBAT:

Angled Throw (Requisites: Dexterity 13+ and Proficient Grenades, 5 MP): Your amazing throws bounce Grenades off walls into open hatches or through congested battle zones. When throwing a Grenade or grenadelike weapon, you bounce it off a wall or other surface close to your target. Ignore Cover and Improved Cover (But not Total Cover) with grenade attacks.

Cover Fire (Requirement: Dexterity 13, 5 MP): You can use the Help action with a ranged weapon to target an opponent within close range, that targets first attack is made at a disadvantage.

Cover Fire – Improved (Requirement: Cover Fire, 5 MP): You can use a burst attack with you Help action. Targeting a 2 by 2 m square.

Duck and Cover (Requirement: Proficient Acrobatics): When exposed to an Area Attack, you can dive for cover. Whenever you are the target of an Attack that misses, once per turn you can Move 2 squares as a Reaction. This movement does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Elusive Target (Requirement: Dexterity 13, 5 MP): The character gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC against ranged attacks.

Far Shot (Requirement: Dexterity 13+, 5 MP): Choose 1 weapon proficiency when you take this feat. When wielding that weapon and you don't move in the same turn as the shot is taken double the short and long range of the weapon. You can take this feat multiple times each time choose a new weapon group or double the range again (maximum 4 times).

Strafe (Requirement: Dexterity 13+, 5 MP): When firing a burst, the character can affect an area four 1m squares long and one square wide (that is, any four squares in a straight line) instead of a 2 by 2 square.

 

[Deriachai]

8 hours ago, 1001100x02 said:

Which was entirely my point. You don't make the weapon less efficient just because you don't want better results on a less efficient RL attack move. You modify the check based on whether the tool is being used correctly, not modify the tool itself to bias the check into giving the results you want.

Within the confines of the current range system, all I can do is optimize the given data for requirements of the scenario. Since the range numbers are for a combat scenario, not a target scenario, those are the numbers which should be used. If you want to replace the system entirely like I have already done in my game, then things can be treated differently.

 

You are normally the one arguing though that we cannot change the existing system for some reason.

[ladyphoenix]

While discussing things that came up on first missions. We probably should have some March rates. Being told to leave a FRED of supplies behind because it is faster to get back to gate without it doesn't make sense when it is capable of moving much faster than the team can most. 

Average US Army/Marine Loaded march is 19 km in 3 hours (6.3 kph) compared to a FRED's Movement rate of 10Kph in the book. If FRED is to be slower than a SG team march, its movement speed needs to be reduced by Half.

Even if we go off 6m move, double move for 12m for full hour (10 turns a minute, 60 minutes), we only get to a speed of 7.2 kph

(March speeds come from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_march )

Edited August 5, 2020 by ladyphoenix

[tetrasodium]

1 hour ago, ladyphoenix said:

While discussing things that came up on first missions. We probably should have some March rates. Being told to leave a FRED of supplies behind because it is faster to get back to gate without it doesn't make sense when it is capable of moving much faster than the team can most. 

Average US Army/Marine Loaded march is 19 km in 3 hours (6.3 kph) compared to a FRED's Movement rate of 10Kph in the book. If FRED is to be slower than a SG team march, its movement speed needs to be reduced by Half.

Even if we go off 6m move, double move for 12m for full hour (10 turns a minute, 60 minutes), we only get to a speed of 7.2 kph

(March speeds come from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_march )

This is really important catch & touches on a lot of the reason it's a problem to just reduce ranges or whatever without being a hot wire.  No player ever complains when the gm puts narrative over crunch to kick a boring or uninteresting/irrelevant bit of stuff behind the curtain like declaring the FRED is faster if the party has something else more interesting to be doing/focused on.  When the GM moves from letting the players be awesome together by describing competence porn & focusing on the fun parts to being the fun referee kneecapping them for being too good like 5e so often forces the gm to... that's when fights start over the math & specific wording.  The gm advice section isn't quite in/ready yet from what I've heard, but noting those two styles of gming might be a good inclusion.

[1001100x02]

10 hours ago, Deriachai said:

Within the confines of the current range system, all I can do is optimize the given data for requirements of the scenario. Since the range numbers are for a combat scenario, not a target scenario, those are the numbers which should be used. If you want to replace the system entirely like I have already done in my game, then things can be treated differently.

You are normally the one arguing though that we cannot change the existing system for some reason.

Okay, maybe you missed it or didn;t go to gencon, but the Dev's released a quickstart to people who did the living missions including a new encounter type which basically zooms out the tactical camera a bit. The salient part however is this:

Okay, so we have here the established basic concept of officially being allowed to situationally modify within the current system the range based on a condition external to the weapon. Like far too many of this game's weapon mechanics the devs have misstepped, because the visual condition should also be affecting the short range of the weapons (ie, the distance before mandatory disadvantage is applied to the attack check, rather than just the maximum distance you can attempt to make a successful attack).

Because rules as written here with only max range being affected, if the GM is imposing a major range reduction due to say extreme winds then you have the frankly nonsensical situation where your p90 attack is completely unaffected by the situation out to 50 m or 100 m and then the shot becomes impossible. The value in that visual range should be in percentages (75%/50%/25% at a rough take)

 

[Deriachai]

You are correct, I didn't got the gencon, and have mostly ignored the Living Series stuff.

 

I would agree that your idea there is better than that established one. Interestingly while talking to my friend in the Army, he did express that visibility would be the primary concern. (Including of course being able to focus on a target, as well as combat problems)

[1001100x02]

8 hours ago, ladyphoenix said:

While discussing things that came up on first missions. We probably should have some March rates. Being told to leave a FRED of supplies behind because it is faster to get back to gate without it doesn't make sense when it is capable of moving much faster than the team can most. 

My gut reaction is that's either just a case of your GM being flat out wrong, or the speed stat supplied being the unladden top speed and thus needing a notation of how mch to reduce that baed on how much cargo it's carrying (because abandoning the mission gear in order to speedily evacuate wounded characters is absolutely a scenario I can players being faced with). I'd go with the first though because logically, why would the military deploy a device that couldn't at least keep up with the troops it's supposed to support?

There's a frustrating lack of information about the real-world vehicles used as the chasis for the FRED and MALP drones, but given the lack of engine noises (and the danger/difficulty of using one in a studio) one has to imagine they're electrically powered. Given we rarely see FRED deployed on missions that aren't about establishing a base camp of some variety, then logically they only have a limited range before they lose the grunt required to shift themselves and their cargo (whether that appears as a slowing of speed or just suddenly not moving is equally likely depending on theunderlying engineering).

The modern (2018) equivalent of FRED is the Squad Multipurpose Equipment Transport. It has a top speed of 24 MPH (roughly 40 KPH), 450 kg (1000 lbs) weight capacity and a 72 hr/100 miles operational range before needing resuppy. Given the development of battery tech is thelast 2 decades, 10 KPH seem's entirely reasonable

TL;DR -- FRED's logically going to be faster than people, but probably is only going to last (several) hours rather than days before needing to be recharged in some fashion.

[Algernon Pike]

FRED from the show was the same speed as a slow walk (roughly the same as a MALP). I would argue that the stats were guesstimated for the game. The episode makes sense even if the mechanics are wrong.

[Deriachai]

They definitely move like electrical vehicles, so that would be my guess. The abrupt torque changes are the giveaway.

Especially when there is no sound, exhaust, or vibration of an internal combustion engine.

[tetrasodium]

18 minutes ago, Deriachai said:

They definitely move like electrical vehicles, so that would be my guess. The abrupt torque changes are the giveaway.

Especially when there is no sound, exhaust, or vibration of an internal combustion engine.

Agreed that it was absolutely electrical, for comparison though the boston dynamics big dog darpa project had a speed that  varies from a 0.45 mph (0.2 m/s) crawl to a 3.6 mph (1.6 m/s) trot according to it's wikipedia page

[1001100x02]

3 hours ago, Algernon Pike said:

FRED from the show was the same speed as a slow walk (roughly the same as a MALP). I would argue that the stats were guesstimated for the game. The episode makes sense even if the mechanics are wrong.

I may well be wrong but I can't ever recall the show depicting FRED in an evacuation or forced march scene. Usually it's just during the initial casual stroll exploration phase where they're trying to find a base camp. Hell, after a while they also stopped showing them even returning the MALP after they come through either because it slowed down the on-screen narrative or,jas as importantly,, I imagine as a means of reducing the location budget.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by 1001100x02

[Deriachai]

New set of comments after 10 episodes

 

• Class/Race Ability
  • Invisibility duration for Noxian Pacifist not defined for non combat situations. How long should it last?
  • Can Word in an Ear be used repeatedly?
  • Diplomatic Expertise says “4rd” as well as “Presence” - what is that?
  • Hak’tyl is just the lady Jaffa group, not all Jaffa on Tretonin
  • Attack Specialist being free at level 5 is only mentioned on page 19, not within the class, so easy to miss.
  • Engineer level 2 shows Tech Specialist in the feature table, but nowhere else

 

• Equipment
  • Weapon ranges are unwieldy as is.
  • MALP variants in feat don't mention the same malps as the equipment section
  • Tactical Helmet is in the Light Armor section, but states Heavy in the table
  • Zat doesn’t indicate the DC of the unconsciousness save, just that there is a save
  • F-302 lists as being the ancestor to the X-301, X-302, when it is the opposite

 

• Feats
  • Nothing new

 

• Other
  • Font used for page number is almost unreadable
  • Pursuit Rules are confusing.
    • How do all the various Position, and Lead actions coexist? They seem to all act in opposition to each other.
    • Halt seems absurdly overpowered as is, no save, nothing where range matters, just instantly out.

 

• Typos
  • Introduction: Stargate Phoenix Site “A well-kept secret for years, even from some SG-1 teams” should be “SG Teams”
  • Jaffa: Tretonin: “Jaffa who take Trenonin” should be “Tretonin”
  • Kelno’reem should be Kel’No’Reem
  • Tau’ri Weapons: Sidearms “personell”
  • Galactical Position System is listed as having an acronym of GPA?
  • Goa’uld Equipment: Common Devices “theck level 3”
  • “Pep Talk” does not appear in Diplomat Features table (43)
  • Downtime Feats - “Physician” should be “Marksman” or similar

 

[Darq]

On 7/21/2020 at 9:34 PM, 1001100x02 said:

In what way are Weapon ranges unwieldy?

With modern firearms, they probably really don't matter much within the context of a game. They will reach the entire map and pretty much as far as you can see.